Marvel Comics Rumored To Be In Some Serious Trouble

It’s time for that rumor mill to start spinning and it might be a big one. Word around the comic book campfire is that Marvel’s lines of comic books are a disaster behind the scenes and big changes are coming our way. You’re going to have to take this with a huge grain of salt but the news is showing up on message boards across 4chan on their diverse replacement characters – i.e. Amadeus Cho’s Hulk, Waid Wilson’s Captain America, and Jane Foster’s Thor etc. To add more to the salt, Marvel but be looking to bring back the originals to the Inhumans and X-Men in hopes to boost sales.

What’s adding more to the idea that this might all be smoke and no fire; the people at Bleeding Cool are stating that these rumors are just that…rumors.

Here’s the info that’s been popping up:

Editorial is miserable. Understaffed, under experienced and overworked. The direction at the top corporate level is a mess of politics and in-fighting. They all look the fool to Disney because of Feige’s split and the bad PR & constant gaming of their declining sales is wearing on them. Top brass want to make a hard left back to what worked with Steve, Thor, Tony, Banner and other recognizable faces. Editorial knows how bad it’s going to look to push all their diversity celebrations to the side. Reality is those books didn’t sell. A lot of it had to do with Marvel’s chincy practices finally reaching a breaking point with fans but the internal editorial spin is that comic shop fans aren’t ready to embrace change.

The terrible reaction to Hydra Cap/Secret Empire forced a change in plans. Originally it was going to end with a quasi-Dark Reign scenario where Hydra is vanquished thanks to Kubik shenanigans and the World Security Council from the movies steps in to assume power over super heroes and everything has Civil War-era overtones with registrations, boot camps, the idea of an Inhuman ban. The Vanishing Point would be a way to bring back Steve, Tony, Thor, Banner; sort of like Hickman’s “Time Runs Out” jump-skip but in reverse, it would rewind the characters to before the Hydra subversion stars. The classic heroes realize that they have lost touch with the people and need to learn how to fight for them again. In the meantime, the new generation of Miles, Kamala, Riri and other Champions would form “the resistance” against the WSC state. (“Generation” was also planned to be the transition from the classic guys taking a step back and letting the new generation lead the charge).

Legacy is a rush-job. They can’t afford to take the classic characters off the table like that for so long but they also don’t want to piss off the new diverse audience they’ve been trying to court. They’re trying to have their cake and eat it too, and please all masters. It’s a scattershot way to buy time while they right the course on several books. It’s not going to be about “new number 1s” but milestone 500, 600, 800 issues. A lot of these big volume numbers are really stretching the definition but the constant relaunches have started to seriously damage the trade department’s ability to plan out long-term marketing.

They’re bringing back the Ultimate line for the teen heroes. Miles will become Ultimate Spider-Man again. Siri becomes Ultimate Iron Man. X-Men Blue becomes Ultimate X-Men. Champions becomes the Ultimates. The only “adult” character that will be a regular presence is Captain Marvel because they want her to be seen a prominent character to the overarching power structure of the WSC/SHIELD and other elements that will factor into her movie heavily. They’ll still make guest appearances in the “main” books but don’t expect them to anchor anymore franchises. Bendis staying on Miles and Riri. Hopeless is still on Ult X. New Ultimates writer is Amy Reeder

Waid is a stop-gap on Cap to bridge the Legacy launch, then takes over Iron Man with 600 (Doom will be the main villain). Coates is taking over Cap with 700. They want him on the book to endorse the image rehabilitation. There’s a lot of face-palming internally about the “cap is a nazi” talk. He’s on both that and Black Panther as long as his schedule allows.

They got lucky with Greg Pak and Hulk. It leads into a Planet Hulk revival pretty seamlessly.

Jane Foster dying was always the end-game with the storyline, but the positive response with female fans means they’re trying to find a way to make her stick around. Tentatively planning to make her the new Valkyrie as the movie version is a blank slate and no one cares about the 70s Defenders character.

Classic Thor will be space-bound for awhile. Definitely through “Ragnarok.”

Slott is off Amazing Spider-Man. They’re going to move him over to Friendly Neighborhood; the fear is he would sign exclusive with DC if they took it away from him completely. Plus he struggles with deadlines and there’s less risk with him off to the side. They can’t ignore declining sales anymore and it’s time for a refresh.

Spencer was earmarked for ‘Amazing Spider-Man” for awhile but he’s “earned it” after taking the heat for Secret Empire. Plus there are fans of his “Superior Foes” book in editorial and the plan is to emphasize tech-based criminals, go smaller scale, focus on NYC. Yes, like the movie. No, they’re not going to de-age him to a teenager. (Although it is a corporate synergy idea that has been floated; editorial has been able to argue that there’s no great way to do it … yet. They’re hoping Tom Holland ages up and they give up on that idea. The time-displaced X-Men are an albatross brought on by First Class synergy).

No major plans for MJ beyond guest spots here and there. The marriage isn’t coming back ever. Renew Your Vows will stick around until its a money-loss. It’s just a spin-off that had some legs, like Spider-Gwen. Silver Sable/Black Cat plans are being developed. Big plans for the Venom series to have a central role in Marvel events.

The X-Men are still in a tight spot. ResurrXion was itself a rush job after the Inhumans movie push was officially kaput and there was no future for family of books. Because of the Fox issue, they still can’t create new ideas that could go toward the movies so its literally just nostalgia retreads. Uncanny will be back next year with Xavier. Old Man Logan is sticking around for the foreseeable future with X-23 becoming his sidekick, the book will be called “Wolverine.” They burned out Deadpool fans with the price gouging, so no plans for spin-off series, but there will always be mini-series on the side to line out trades.

Seriously, don’t expect the classic Fantastic Four anytime soon. Ike has seemingly dug his heels in; even though Fox will probably never figure out what to do with them, he’s spiting the brand because of how bad the negotiations went. Sue & Reed and the kids are seen as “boring” enough to sacrifice. Two-In-One is basically a containment book for people to get their F4 fix. It’s an inventory book, no set writer, it’s like “Avenging Spider-Man” or “A+X.” Different writers will get to use different pet characters.

Ms. Marvel is in a funky spot because most at Marvel are aware that something organically special happened with her book. She’s basically the new “Runaways,” a special project with a special writer’s connection. It will last as long as Wilson wants to writer her, with a focus on the bookstore market while she pops in and out of other books when relevant. They want the audience to have enough familiarity with her because it’s inevitable she’ll be adapted sooner than later; it’s way too soon for her to be introduced into any Carol Danvers sequels so the TV division might snag her for their Hulu/Freeform teen show pitches. (Moon Girl is saved by her trade sales but the threshold is much lower for if sales drop any lower.)

Wilson is also taking over Captain Marvel. They need to make it work and she’ll do the best job tying the legacy together. Kamala, Monica Rambeau, SWORD — its all part of it.

Runaways is just a mini-series. They just want the trade out in time for the Hulu show. They can’t seem to get readers to care if it’s not BKV but they know people still love the franchise.
>Cloak & Dagger and New Warriors series are coming. Squirrel Girl is wrapping up and North is moving her storylines over to NW where she’ll be the main character.

Elektra, Bullseye, Kingpin tanking so hard shook them. They need the “Marvel Knights Netflix” corner to be sustainable, so they’re relying on Bendis on Defenders & Jessica Jones for awhile. Say what you want about his other stuff, everyone here thinks its still his sweet spot.

Brian Buccellato is on Daredevil with issue 600.

Justin Jordan is on Moon Knight; big hope that he can give Marvel their “mature” critically acclaimed book that juices up that corner of Marvel.

Secret Warriors and Royals are already wrapping up. Rosenberg is moving over to one main Inhumans book. Quake/SHIELD will be background characters until “Agents” wraps up (everyone knows this is the last season).

They’re going to give Ahmed a shot with Black Bolt until sales drop.

No plans to take Duggan off Guardians. Gunn is moving full steam ahead with Adam Warlock weirdness and they want to make sure those characters/ideas are “accessible” but still fun.

Punisher War Machine is just one storyline involving Stark tech. They want to pull the character back from some of the real-life darkness and imagery; Nate Edmondson’s rep + Secret Empire has made him “ugly” (plus no one cares about Cloonan’s run). They want to scale him back to the Spider-Man/Defenders side of street-level, with less focus on real guns and more emphasis on comic book-y tech.

Al Ewing is on Spirits of Vengeance. Editorial likes him, but he can’t sell a book to save his life. They just want someone with a love of Marvel lore to write the magic/horror characters to have them prepped for future Movie Phase exploration with a Blade reboot. They know that corner of Marvel horror needs its own “Annihilation.”

Replying to whether Marvel will have a black Mary Jane or what Vanishing Point was.

It’s just like … a Spencer plot device. It could have been WeirdWorld (oh boy that was a failed plan). It’s just Spencer’s take on a “place out of time” a la Morrison.

There are no plans for a Spidey reboot like that. They can’t get readers to pick up a teen Peter Parker since Bendis killed off Ultimate.

They wrote themselves into a corner because no one cares about kids books like Marvel Adventures or that “Spidey” book from last year.

There has been some discussion about an “Untold Tales of Spider-Man” relaunch with teen Peter and the high school cast but they don’t want Busiek and there’s no market for “prequel” books.

There’s a thought (and I agree) that once the animated Miles movie comes out, they’ll have their “Spider-Man for kids” so we want to keep him strong in the comics and cartoon merch. The Sony deal is kind of closed off but in terms of brand direction, we’re all about synergy. The Gwen revival talk is dead now that the Emma Stone movies are done.

We’re just kind of waiting to see Sony’s next steps but there’s kind of like a prep for nostalgia for the Raimi trajection in terms of MJ & college.

We’re in the dark about a lot of the post Infinity War plans now but the overarching brand direction we were looking at was scaling it to revolve around Spider-Man even though Marvel can’t make a solo Spidey film.

I think Tom Holland is going to be the new lynchpin for the MCU. They’re not going to have a new “Iron Man” franchise but they’ve got Holland locked into a deal where he’ll teaming up with characters in their own stuff.

The original plan was to mirror the Civil War to Secret Invasion to Dark Reign arc.

There’s a reason this is called Secret Empire. The next step was “Nomad”‘ing the entire Marvel line-up. There was a lot of editorial excitement about saying something about Trump’s win and the baby boomer backlash.

No one was expecting the backlash to cap hydra and they probably could have kept the original plans intact but I think it was the sales/marketing push that buried it.

Not everyone is an idiot here; we are aware of how we price gouge comic shops. I think that was more the issue and once all the online fan political arguing started happening around the book, retailers just finally threw their hands cause it wasn’t worth the outrage.

On what Ultimate comics are

just an imprint line. not a separate universe.

Jason Aaron is off doing his own thing. His Avengers BC thing is just a Morrison mini series idea he has.
Spencer “made his statement” now that Captain Sam won’t be the status quo (that was the original plan while Steve goes back to the maskless “Super Soldier” identity).

I think everyone agrees it’s time to take teens away from Waid.

But the senior editors had big plans for that push and now there’s nowhere else to put it. But we can’t just get rid of it forever.

There was no plan to replace all the “white men” its just how the pieces fell into the place. Honestly, the Riri thing was the tipping point. It was Bendis’ idea, no one in editorial had a big plan for it and it hurt the big post-Secret Wars push to make Tony Stark the franchise of the MU.

Since it’s basically a book for his daughter, we’re kind of stuck keeping her in print.

Edit wants to have a fresh voice on a Miles book in time for the Sony cartoon. David Walker apparently had a pitch that got people excited.

But there’s just no way to take Miles AND Riri away from Bendis without burning a bridge with him forever.

On Spider-Man,

I’m not kidding: the Slott FNSM run is going to marketed like Joss Whedon on Astonishing. It’s its “own thing” “unrestricted by the monthly continuity but still taking place in the MU” which is code for “if its late, its late.”

It’s going to be sold as “separate but equal” to Amazing. I have no idea how long it will last, but it’s to assuage his ego apparently as he was not interested in other books.

I don’t think anybody wants anyone else to jump to DC. The real fear is Disney seeing that Warner had success moving the comics office to Burbank and lining everything up under one roof.

Moving Marvel Comics out of NYC and onto the Disney lots is a real possibility. A lot of us will get downsized or just not relocate if that happens.

On what it was like when the Legacy variant covers were announced

not surprised. just our typical variant trick that’s been meant with diminishing returns while contracts get lined up for new last-minute books to replace post SE plans.
shitty day for me because i had to handle a lot of the online damage control until like 8:30

This is how Marvel corporate works under Ike: we don’t give the fox and sony movies anything but we will milk the cash in on comics.

After X3, the plan was to do a teen focused reboot, so we were going to cash in on that. Not literally the movie cast, but remove the baggage and make them streamlined and accessible to younger demos.

Claremont is like the “Spider Man wedding” of X Men. Its this unwieldy thing that none of the senior editors like that they want to rewind but because of the movie deal we can’t make new IP.

X-Men has been a micromanaged mess since I started here. AVX was a sales team gimmick to replicate Civil War, which messed up Schism. Remender’s plans got hijacked by the time displaced O5 which was a pretty shameless Bendis pitch to corporate. There’s no central architect guiding the franchise, just big plans that get derailed by the next sales gimmick.

Then the fox talks started going really south and it wasn’t just “don’t give them new ideas” but actively scale it back.

Yes Ike and corporate really thought they could replace X Men with Inhumans. They don’t actually care what it is, just as long as they own it.

The 05 was seen as a way to scale it back and might as well “House of M” the last vestige of Grant Morrison’s run and just make Scott & Emma straight up super villains. But its been a mess cause no two writers are working together on the bigger picture and Gillen and Aaron and Remender all had different plans.

IVX was a mercy killing to a character that had been written into a corner

Carnage: big villain for the Venom plans
Power Pack: early early development for a freeform show, comic would follow obviously

And where all this was coming from.

i’m writing this on my personal laptop out of the office. no one at marvel checks this place. and if they did, they just see 4chan as a bunch of trump trolls

The thing that bothers me the most about the article is the ending where “leaker” mentions how easy it is to get the information out there for us to see. Marvel as been known to keep a tight lid on their material so all this info that has been dropped on us is suspicious at best.

What do you guys think? Do you think Marvel might be in a panic over their comic book division? Let Us Know Below!

Managing Editor, Writer   Lifelong film fanatic, Mark Salcido was discovered frozen in carbonite by C.H.U.Ds. He was released to the surface level to spread his rants and opinions on anything of film and digital. Batman calls him for advice.
  • Alan Whipple

    Could the legacy of decades of print comics become TV/Movie only properties? Hmmm…

  • Paul Fries

    Marvel Comics has spent so much time, energy, and resources virtue signaling and lecturing readers that their worldview is wrong that they’ve driven many readers away and plummeted their book sales down to below 2008 recession levels.

    Sales figures don’t lie. It’s evident that nobody likes having their characters made evil, replaced, or altered to cram in diversity for the sake of diversity. They did add in some new characters like America, but those books are so preachy and so propaganda like that they may as well be the racist comics from the klan back in the thirties and forties except reversed so white people are the violent frothing at the mouth monsters and gay persons of color are the golden standard for what is virtuous and normal. It’s not only cringy, but insulting and divisive. Hell, America’s writer (Gabby Rivera) celebrated her birthday recently on Twitter expressing that she hopes to have at least a hundred more years to “F*#k with the white hetero patriarchy”. What kind of craziness is that? Her hatred for white people and straight people oozes out of every page of her book, and Marvel happily prints it.

    The writing and editing staff at Marvel needs to be shown the door, and people with a knowledge and love of the Marvel IP need to come in and return the product to where it was a source of entertainment, not a platform to accuse the world of wrongthink and attack the fans of their product.

    • The “Mouse” likes money and hates controversy. SJW marvel hates money and produces controversy. “Captain Cummings”, “Diversity in Comics”, and the rest of the true fans of comics have been carrying on a struggle trying to fix Marvel. Marvel is at the rock bottom right now. I give Marvel’s chances of recovery about 50/50. It depends on the Mouse. But one reason why Spider-Man: Homecoming was not such a hit was Marvel’s destroyed the audience it had in the early 2000s. The Mouse will soon discover that all their hot properties of Iron-Man, Hulk, Fantastic Four, Thor, X-Men, Avengers, and the lot have been destroyed by weird-ass SJWs.

      • Frank Earl

        The “Mouse” doesn’t LIKE when someone screws with it’s money supply.

      • Shadowsafter

        God that opening two sentences… fucking poetry man.

    • TL

      I didn’t know these facts about this Gabby Rivera she is a racist bitch. And any real company would fire her for such comments. Can you imagine a White man who said the exact opposite on social media? He would be fired immediately.

      Just another reason not to support current Marvel Comics. And if one day the house is cleared out. I want this bitch and Nick Spencer fired and banned for life form the company.

    • Kai Sheppard

      She appears to like sugar and Cheetoes too much to be around a hundred more years.

  • Tom Bacon

    There’s too much of this that contradicts what we already know. Yes, Marvel’s in trouble atm, but I don’t buy this report I’m afraid.

    • adamstom97

      But there seems to be a lot of oddly specific info here for it to just all be made up.

      • Wien1938

        Either someone has spent a long time concocting bullshit…or more likely, there’s a lot of truth in this report.

      • Tom Bacon

        It’s a mish-mash of rumours from other sites (including less reputable ones) and popular gossip on social media, with a bit of attitude added to the mix. Even Bleeding Cool is dismissing it.

  • Excellence_and_Elegance

    I stopped buying Marvel comics. I had been reading Hulk and Iron Man, but I don’t even know what the hell is going on any more.

    I don’t see it as a boycott but rather as a refusal to buy products that are total garbage.

  • Luke J.

    The problem with Marvel Comics is they have very little fan interaction.. go live on social media or open a forum where they can hear from the fans. We all have great idea’s and can probably help with comic book sales. I agree the event’s are coming too fast, there’s no build up to it. AvX was messy, IvX was messy resurreXion was messy also. there’s too much time travel and too many returns from the dead. Diversity is okay, we live in a diverse world but ease it in, don’t shove it down throats and hope the readers can stomach it and as much as we may not like it, politics has to play into the comic world as well. And please, new writers should learn the history of the characters. nothing worst than a writer taking on a project and know very little about the heroes (MCU as well).

    • Paul Dozier

      I disagree. They have plenty of fan interaction on Twitter, they just seem to hate the fans. The writers and editors and even some artists seem to all be nothing but far left ideologues who preach, virtue signal, and punch down to potential readers. Anyone who doesn’t 100% agree with one of the writers or editors gets blocked at best, taunted and belittled at worst.
      As an artist, Marvel used to be my dream job. Now I wouldn’t go there even if they wanted me (not that they would, I was never good enough to be a pro, but still).

      • Juju

        Yep, if anything, they have TOO MUCH communication with fans. They actively antagonize Marvel’s customer base all the time, to push their politics. And it’s not like we’re talking about hugely successful writers here, either– we’re talking assistant editors and nobody’s.

        I’ve actually seen more than one of them specifically state they don’t want people to buy their work (ie, their employer’s PRODUCT) if they don’t agree with their politics. That should get your ass fired in seconds.

      • I mean, I got into it with Dan Slott on Twitter and the guy dug up an old (admittedly reactionary) review to ASM 700 I did to try to “shame” me with it, blasted it to his followers, then claimed he showed it around the Marvel offices where they had a good laugh at my expense.

        The problem is, Marvel literally seems to hate their fans the moment they give them criticism. Full stop. You’re only worth their time if you fluff their egos, which is why so many comic sites refuse to negatively review their stuff for fear of losing their “exclusive access”.

      • Spelunker4Plato

        “far left ideologues”

        1) liberals are not leftists. liberals are right of center laissez faire capitalists
        2) liberals use identity politics to divide people along lines of alienated labor. if they were leftists they would talk about class consciousness
        3) leftists who are marxists engage in dialectic materialist argumentation. logical, rational discussion is the opposite of ideology. ideology is based on feelings and faith when faith is the opposite of knowing.
        4) the original meaning of the word liberal meant freedom to own property. John Locke was talking about rich white men. right wing libertarians study liberal economists
        5) BTW the word “libertarian” is a stolen and misused word as well. the original meaning of the word “libertarian” meant left wing and anti-authoritarian and replaced the word “anarchist” because the word “anarchist” had been banned in France a few centuries ago. it actually makes more sense to say “libertarian socialist” if you want to talk about the original libertarians
        6) words are used to deceive people. fox news daily conflates “liberal” and “leftist” to keep people brainwashed and ignorant of the fact that liberal and conservative politicians serve the same corporate interests
        7) establishment liberals are pro war, pro corporation, and another example would be that many of the democrats politicians in the u.s. are choosing not to support a single payer healthcare bill proposed by bernie sanders. when asked about millennials not trusting capitalism as much as older generations (baby boomers grew up in a time with corporate taxes were higher, hence the better economy before the 1980s), Nancy Pelosi replied “we’re capitalists, and that’s just they way it is)

        liberals are not leftists. liberals’ job is to act as controlled opposition and then betray the working classes and minorities.

  • Danilo Raul

    Could be all lies, but the fact is that Marvels needs their own “Rebirth” type of thing. They are publishing an insanely amount of comic books that no one gives a shit about. They have to pare down that line and bring back home the bacon. I’m quite enjoying The X-Men right now because of resurreXtion because it’s straight up superhero fare and not a preachy SJW wankfest.

    • Marco

      Word. X-Men Gold brought me back after 5 years of Marvel basically trying to get these characters out of the mainstream public because movies. Guggenheim is doing a great job in telling regular X-Men adventures there. And with Astonishing’s big reveal at the end of #1, I immediately thought that after that series end (12 issues), the book will have its characters thrown into a new UXM that will also replace Gold.

  • Kevin Kess

    You know what? If The Walt Disney Company / Disney Enterprises Inc. does decide to move Marvel out of New York and onto their lots in Burbank, this COULD be a good thing.

    If only to see Mickey and Minnie (and Donald and Daisy and Goofy and Clarabelle) crack the whip on the “staff” at The House of M and tell them: “No, stop it. You’re costing us lots of time and money. Either give the people the stories that they want or we’ll find someone else who will.”

    Or they could go the opposite route and double-down on even more stupidity.

    In any case, it’ll be interesting to see what the House of Mouse will do, if this is true.

    • Oralom

      “In April 2013, Marvel Studios moved its production facilities from Manhattan Beach to The Walt Disney Studios in Burbank, California.”

    • Greg Price

      We ARE takling about California…specifically Hollyweird.

    • Mongo_the_GoofyBastard

      Location isn’t the problem. Its who they’ve hired and their pushing of an extreme leftist political agenda. They are pandering to a market that doesn’t exist. SJWs don’t read comics. They just want to police the content and insert their progressive marxist religious beliefs. They are no different than the Evangelical Christians in the 80s. I’m old enough to remember how they attacked music and media back then and this is just history repeating itself only with a new religion.

      • Neoconmetal

        Bravo. Great post. As someone who is not only a comic fan but a huge fan of 80s metal, I am right there with you. It makes me cringe when those same folks that were ready to team with Tipper and her hit squad act like they speak as the moral authority for conservatives.

  • Hagbard

    Marvel comics has been dead for quite a while now, and even if they fired everyone there and brought on competent people, the damage is done. The new writers would have to retcon this era of Marvel like it were some bad dream everyone was having. So sad to see these people who really didn’t like comics to begin with, ruin such an awesome company.

  • Harlan Roberts

    Liberal cucks are ALWAYS shocked when they find out that folks with working brains (there are only TWO genders) don’t like their unreal world view be it in reality or in comics, movies, music, etc. Maybe one of Trump’s companies can buy Marvel and turn it around into a YUUUGGGELY profitable business once again.

    • Michael Payton

      Three genders:
      Male
      Female
      Attention Whore

    • G.I.Jew

      MakeMarvelGreat Again!

      Amen to that!

  • Bill_Goodwin

    I don’t see how anything can be saved with the current writers and editors. Disney needs to do some major firing, and if DC is dumb enough to take those failures on so be it.

    • Mongo_the_GoofyBastard

      They only hire based on shallow surface traits and not merit or talent. If you hire bigots that openly hate me because of my skin color and sexual orientation (and are praised for it) I’m not buying your books, period.

      • Jakk Frost

        Nice job wording that in a completely neutral manner so nobody from either side can take umbrage with it. (And I’m not being sarcastic.) You almost caught me with it, then I re-read it and realized you could just as easily be anti-SJW, since those are the current tactics promoted by SJWs.

  • Juju

    I don’t know why they bend over for Bendis so much. He did some good work once, but now it’s all sloppy, phoned-in, self-indulgent garbage. Treat him like any other writer. If he doesn’t like it, who cares. I mean, if sales were booming because of his work, that’d be one thing– but they’re in the toilet.

    • Dat SengalBoi

      It’s really a shame. Bendis was good back then. But now he’s completely garbage.

    • Greg Price

      or Slott

      • Paul Dozier

        Dan Slott may in fact be THE Devil.

    • TL

      All true at one time he was good. Now he is hack whose ideas are just hurting the company. And it’s time they let him go.

  • Juju

    “…they also don’t want to piss off the new diverse audience they’ve been trying to court.”

    There IS NO “new, diverse audience”. That’s the whole point. They have a small number of fans who have hung in there with their chosen titles, hoping this was just a phase Marvel was going through. But even they are now rapidly losing patience.

    Marvel’s whole ‘SJW’ line is like a food truck blocking the door to a McDonald’s. Yes, they’ll sell some burgers. But no one LIKES them, they’re just the only thing on offer. People will only resent them and hope they’ll be towed out of the fucking way so they can get a Big Mac again.

    • Dat SengalBoi

      SJWs are basically the one who read a movie’s summary at Wikipedia and thinks they’re experts of the movie without watching it.

  • Polar Bara

    The entirety of the progressive shift Marvel made in recent years has been an enormous storm of bad ideas, worse writing and horrible art, with only a few examples that worked well.

    All-New Ghost Rider was really, genuinely good, but got hamstringed by a lack of any real promotion (The Agents of Shield deal was dreamt up long after the comic was cancelled, and the editorial mandate to push crossovers killed the revival book).

    Ms. Marvel is the one, genuine, runaway success, but the horribly thin premise of Civil War 2 (Fire Bendis Boogaloo) really hurt the story’s momentum, and Waid’s champions with its inconsistent tone and terrible dialog is damaging as well.
    However, Ms. Marvel, under the pen of Wilson and Amanat hits all the marks of representing the changing ethnic and cultural tenets of urbanite America, while also telling a fun, compelling and genuinely inspiring Superhero story. It’s “Amazing Spider-Man” for kids who grew up with smartphones.
    I’ll be very disappointed if this baby gets thrown out with the rest of the bathwater — all those roaring dumpster fires like America Chavez, Moon Girl, North/Henderson’s Squirrel Girl and Waid/Ramos’ Champions.

    Gwenpool is some next-level auteur existential horror and needs to stick around on artistic merit. Goddamned great book.

    What irks me the most is that it isn’t just the new characters that aren’t selling. It’s a line-wide decline that’s not a reaction to new characters or changes in status quo. Instead, oversaturation of meaningless crossover events means that the individual books don’t get to tell their own story, so buying any one comic becomes a waste of time. Throw in a dash of unscrupulous and unfair number-distorting, overshipping, and rampant abuse of variants to prop up the wholly untrue facade of a success, and Marvel is driving head-first into a brick wall at a hundred miles an hour. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1a389d1b25dedbde4c3e4a709f14916d04cae100562cd0b32d716161c2015573.png

    • Juju

      Yeah– I loved the new Ghost Rider. That was a pretty brilliant redesign.

    • Spelunker4Plato

      liberals are not progressives. or if they can be categorized as progressives, its by the barest of definitions

  • G.I.Jew

    I always been a die hard Marvel fan. I was dreaming that one day, when my son will be old enough to read, I’ll buy him his first issue of Spider-Man or Captain America or any other Marvel comics, but now I’m not sure that I ever buy anything from Marvel.

    Alex Alonso totally ruined this company by making it his tool to promote his own SJW/PC propaganda.

    And if such a die hard fan as me stopped supporting this company then no, it’s not a rumor it’s truth.

    • Agent42318

      You can always give your son plenty of great trades of great Marvel stories before the company went straight to hell.

      • G.I.Jew

        I’m planning to (:I have reprints of Amazing Fantasy #15 and the first issues of ASM. It will be a good start.

        • Agent42318

          Yeah, I don’t have kids myself, but I hope to one day. And, I plan on giving them all sorts of trades on these great characters I love so much. Granted my trade collections of Garth Ennis’ Punisher MAX and Frank Miller’s Daredevil won’t really be appropriate until they’d be teenagers, but plenty of great stuff like Lee/Kirby and Byrne’s runs on Fantastic 4 as well as classic Spider-Man, X-Men, and Hulk stories would be great.

          God, willing the mouse does step in at Marvel and fix a lot of their problems.

          • G.I.Jew

            When my son will be a teenager, I’ll give him something like Kraven’s last hunt, DD Born Again and What Ifs. I love these stories. I also love the Clone saga and can’t understand why people hate it so much.

            I was learning English by reading these comics. Fortunately my son was born in the US and English will be his first language.

          • Agent42318

            The problem with the Clone Saga was it was long and drawn out with no clear direction (it also doesn’t help that at the end they made Peter the clone). Basically it was a cool idea with a very flawed execution. The Clone Saga had a lot of potential, but it just needed better direction. It was never a terrible idea from the start like Sins Past or One More Day.

            Funny enough, comics were how I learned to read. English was always my first language, but I was never a good reader as a kid, so my mother got me into comics to get me to read more and get better at reading.

          • G.I.Jew

            I’m a scientist and I used to work with cloning (mice not men) so I’m a little bit biased toward all fiction about cloning (: SW-Attack of the Clones is my favorite SW movie after SW-A New Hope.

          • Agent42318

            Interesting. One of the things I heard that cloning could possibly do one day is possibly clone body parts. So say someone could have their heart cloned if they have a heart disease or an arm cloned after losing it. That way the recipient wouldn’t need the immunosuppressive drugs.

          • G.I.Jew

            It’s nearly impossible to do. But there are more easy ways to create a donor-specific tissue-engineered organs. You take a heart from a dead donor, decellularized it with a coctail mix of special enzymes, leaving only connective tissue scaffold and then inseminate it with patien’s own stem cells (predifferentiated into heart muscle cells) and then grow a new heart in the special camera. This way patiet also wouldn’t need the immunosuppressive drugs.

          • Agent42318

            Cool. See I wouldn’t know this stuff, I only heard about the cloning of body parts thing some years ago when I was in high school. So it’s just something that stuck out in my memory when I heard it. But that’s really interesting.

  • Mr. Popo

    Holy shit. The rabbit hole goes way too deep. Liberals and feminists are fucking up everything.

  • Greg Price

    Nothing there I hadn’t heard from other sources (they probably got it from the same original sources themselves).

    Heartsick to hear they don’t want Busiek. Likewise heartsick to hear Claremont delcared “Spider Marriage” situation. They’re two of Marvel’s best ever.

    Sounds overall like they’re trying to patch things back together while keeping as much of the “diversity” BS as they can. No clean break/reset/reboot.

  • Mongo_the_GoofyBastard

    Fire all the SJWs and I might come back. Until then its DC and indies for me.

  • If drudgereport.com picks up the link to what the SJWs are doing at Marvel then Axle Alonso & the rest of the 2017 “milk shake” crew will be fired inside of a month. This B.S. from Marvel ends before the end of 2017.

    • Ajt

      Breitbart and The Daily Caller have been covering it for ages. It’s part of why Marvel’s sales are in the toilet, The actual paying customers are walking away in disgust. But those in charge just don’t get it. They are so insulated in their NYC Artist bubble that they honestly believe their paying customers are all racist sexist Nazi’s. (Yeah guys, great way to sell books!) Stan loved every fan of Marvel and would never ever disparage a single one of them for any reason. Even if he disagreed with them on something. The modern creators clearly Loathe every fan of Marvel and will never ever refrain from disparaging them or heaping scorn, insults and accusations on them.

  • Ajt

    Just from reading this “leak”, which may be BS, but does reinforce quite a bit that we have quietly known;

    – Yeah, Marvel is going to be moved out to Disney. At this point it’s not “if” it’s “when”. Corporate likely already has office space assigned, but nobody is telling the Milkshake Crew for fear of what they might do. When it happens it will happen fast.

    – Just from looking at this you see a root cause of the problem. “We can’t do this to solve the obvious problem because it would piss off Bendis” and “we’re stuck with the horrifically unpopular Riri Williams because it’s written for Bendis’s daughter”. I wonder does Bendis even realize he is a Dead Man Walking? The moment Disney feels he or his ego is an obstacle to righting the ship he will be kicked to the curb. The same with Slott. While Ike may have some strange loyalty to them (seemingly un-Perlmutter’ish) Disney does not. During the Feige blowup Bendis and Slott were specifically cut off and isolated from the movies forevermore. If Disney hates them, and the fans hate them, and they are actively damaging the brands, why keep paying them? Heck the most damage they could do to D.C. comics is to let them have Bendis and Slott. Maybe throw in Waid and SPENCER as a package deal.

    – They are so fearful of pissing off the “fans” of these new characters. Why? The actual paying fan base for Riri Williams could not fill a High School Auditorium. They are driving away fans that have been paying them steadily for up to 50 years, for a niche fan base that barely numbers a few thousand. The truth is they are fearful of a virtue signaling media backlash. But that only goes so far. You can only pour so much money down the pit of mainstream media appeasement before the House of Mouse cries enough.

    • Spelunker4Plato

      yeah, there are plenty of ways to introduce more diverse characters, but many of them already exist and shoehorning new characters without context turns people off.

      Where is Deathlok in all of this?

    • TL

      Well said I agree with it all.

    • Greg Price

      “They are so fearful of pissing off the “fans” of these new characters.
      Why? The actual paying fan base for Riri Williams could not fill a High
      School Auditorium.”

      Because those few “fans” can cause a HUGE amount of social media stink that no business wants to deal with. It’s not just those few fans, it’s the 100s of 1000s of people they can get to rant and rave and write emails “on principle”.

      • Then the real enemy/obstacle is social media. The unspoken fear in the comic biz (really the entertainment biz as a whole) is that – regardless of how artificially-manipulated your average Twitter/FB virtue-signalling shitstorms may be, and how little they have to do with what actual readers want and would be willing to pay for, to jettison the SJW books/ideologues in open defiance of social media means that they’d have to run the (sadly, all-too-real) risk of skimasked stormtroopers invading high-profile shops to loot/riot/burn – all the while holding up placards emphasizing the Scare Words of our time (racist, sexist, Trump, etc).

        Given that the cops routinely hold antifa’s coats during these rampages….and the media will restrict their reporting to those terrible words on the signs (and end their reporting right there) ….who can blame Marvel for accepting slow-death-by-attrition and continuing to pay the danegeld (look it up) to the SJW contingent? It’s not as if comic books (and much more importantly, comic book shops) are in good health at the moment; I doubt they could weather a storm like that. I also doubt that Disney would want any part of something like that.

  • Sally Shears

    I even quit buying Renew your Vows. Marvel’s horrible in pretty much every way.

    • Spidey

      no you can’t stop buying that book like this article says RYV is done once its sales go down so we need as many people buying it as possible especially given Marvel’s no marriage for Peter and MJ in 616 rule we need as many people going against it with buying RYV as possible

  • This article best illustrates the problem: too many books. Too many freaking books. Too many godforsaken freaking books. And every one of these will be roped into another unnecessary event that strongarms the reader into buying them all, supposedly. Instead, the response is, “Oh, take all of your books and shove them,” which I believe is what we are seeing.

    The solution, if there is one, is a moratorium on 70% of the line. Now that will be a painful move. That means there will be only one Spider Man book, only one X-Men team, and so forth, but they desperately need this. Things are spread so ridiculously thin right now.

    I as a now-casual reader am not going to get looped into a character that acts as a sort of Ponzi scheme. If you give me one year, one character, on one book, and a reason to care, I might be persuaded to try again.

    Marvel has played a game of real estate, not of storytelling. If they insist upon taking up the majority of the comic shop shelf space, my response is not to buy them all. My response is to stop going to the comic shop. I think that is a rational, and apparently duplicated course of action.

    • Greg Price

      Not so much “too many books” but too many books that are too much ALIKE. For example, Marvel could publish 4-5 mutant books back in the day because each book had it’s own “voice” Excalibur was very different from the core X books which were different from X-Force which was different from X-Factor.

      • I do agree in part. But books were cheaper then too. And the movies weren’t that big a deal. Maybe I’m too sensitive to overkill but, surely, Marvel is not sensitive enough.

  • defiant1701

    Fire all the SJWs, Bring back and restore all legacy characters, bring back the ultimate universe and its earth, put all the SJW characters on it to be the heroes of that earth, then seal the dimensional barriers so that no contact can be made with that earth ever again. Marvel is great again.

    • snow&peace

      They can keep 1 or 2 of the more competent ones just forbid them from pushing politics in it.
      Some examples.
      Jason Aaron’s Thor was phenomenal for the God Butcher/Bomb arc.
      Spencer’s Avengers World was great.

  • Paul Dozier

    Fans have noticed that there are very few supervillains these days, it’s mostly heroes fighting other heroes. So why are there so few supervillains in modern Marvel?
    Because they all moved to the bullpen.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d1deef5e4c2246df526682469d87d71c2f75f9571ae8f130c2477f65817b3915.jpg

    • mcgregormax

      Every since Civil War 1 Marvels heroes only fight each other and have been doing so for ten years now. And since heroes are supposed to fight villains does this mean that they are all villains now?

  • Billy Wayne Cox

    Now that I no longer read ANY Marvels, I could care less what happens to them. They turned their backs on the fans and ignored us. They are getting what they deserve. I’ll just continue to get my Marvel fix from the movies and my comic fix from DC and others…

  • InternetPeaceCorps

    at this point marvel can go die in a fire for all I care.
    Unless the fire all their sjw writers and bring back all of the traditional heroes and treat them with the respect that they deserve I´m not gonna buy anything form them ever again

  • TL

    The whole SJW push has ruined Marvel Comics. Until Axel Alonso the EIC and all the upper management of the last 5 years or so are fired and replaced things will not improve. This is happening on there watch and must be fired.

    They need a harsh leader like a new Jim Shooter who understood Marvel Comics to whip the writers and artists back into shape.

    Say what you want about him but he was the leader who made 1980s Marvel a great era.

    And he made early Valiant a great company as well.

    Until there is true leadership back with respect to the real Marvel things will not improve.

    I really hope this Legacy story like Generations fails in sales. Only by people not buying and the Marvel ship being rode into the ground.

    Maybe then someone really high up the Disney chain will figure out the problem. Realize it’s about making money. Stop pushing social agendas.

    And yes firing them all.

    Also someone like Bendis who was great a decade ago. Is now a hack who is hurting and not helping Marvel Comics.

    • Ajt

      Why do they need a “New Jim Shooter”? Just have Disney give Jim Shooter a call and throw some real money at him.

  • Glen Benjamin

    The problem I have is the characters and story are all over the place. Plus there just may be a glut of books and many young people are NOT into comics. I fear comic book companies are doing the same thing baseball card companies did. A glut of material with more piled on.

  • Glen Benjamin

    I wonder what the artists of Marvel from decades ago would think of Marvel comics today?

    • Greg Price

      Some of them are still around and seem to be mixed on the subject.

  • I swear to GOD if they make Laura into the Old Man’s sidekick I’m burning Marvel’s offices to the ground. It’s bad enough she’s been marginalized so writers can throw him in every fucking team book, but she is LONG past being a sidekick to ANYBODY.

  • cologeek

    Te Nehisi Coates writing Captain America, any version of Captain America, would be as great a travesty as anything Nick Spencer has done to the character. God I hope this rumor is wrong.

    • snow&peace

      Seconded, really worried about that. His 1st arc of Black Panther was great but yeah his Panther & Crew book is cancer.

  • ToonDragon1977Brian Goubeaux

    For the past many months, there’s one thing that I always hear from YouTubers like Engeltine and Diversity and Comics. That gripe is how the writing is subpar to what they read in the 1990s. And from the readings, I may have to agree. Even though the characters are supposed to be intelligent, they all seemed to have the distinct personality of Downtown Julie Brown for some reason. Also, the stories didn’t make sense at times, as though they haven’t read the material. I hope that with this shake-up, that future stories will be more solid and the personalities of the Ultimate line to be more natural.

  • Jason M. Adams

    thats way too much to read!

  • Neoconmetal

    I have been predicting that at some point Disney will throw their hands up and say enough is enough. Fire everyone. I believe that eventually they will just farm the characters out to another publisher to manage all of the BS. They will give very basic guidance so the comics being made and the shows and movies being made line up somewhat and let the publisher deal with all of the headaches. A smaller publisher is not going to tolerate egos and the like all that much.

    • Greg Price

      More likely they’ll just shut down publishing. They have what they want (the IP rights to make movie with).

  • Sterling Howard

    Here are the problems, as I see them. Bear with me.

    What would be the problem with a white, female, Luke Cage? A white male Storm? A white Black Panther? Because it would not be Luke Cage, Storm or Black Panther. Fans are invested not just in Power Man, Storm and Black Panther. They are just as invested in Luke Cage the man, Ororo and T’Challa. Their color, their gender, their back stories make the characters interesting, NOT just their powers.

    Another problem is that all this diversity is actually a slap at people of color and women. When you force diversity on to existing characters (the masked identities), you are kind of implying that you cannot make stories about minorities without reverse white-washing.

    In Hollywood, they used to re-hash stories with white actors into stories with black actors. Without acknowledging that there were a whole host of stories of black or Hispanic, etc. that were compelling, but yet unique to their culture and their experiences. Which is a kind of paternalistic racism.

    Another issue is understanding the audience they are trying to reach with this diversity. I just had another print magazine contact me to inform me that they are going out of print and my subscription is being transferred to a different print magazine in the publisher’s stable. I’m sure one reason is because more readers are migrating to online sources of the information provided.

    The older (read, white men, 30 and above) readers that drive a lot of the paper comic sales are the ones buying print comics (or not buying them). The younger readers are looking online or at graphic novels only, when they buy paper. If you wanted the Wasp comic to reach a certain segment of the society, GO where they are, not where you WISH they were.

    And finally, tell great stories. A grown woman (Wasp) in bed with teenage girls is a little creepy.

  • Nietzsche’s Nihilistic Salad

    Marvel needs to decide.

    Does it want to destroy itself with SJW/PC fanaticism? Or does it want to stay in business?

    I think it’s a pretty easy decision. Marvel, however, is still not sure which way to take.

  • ActionBastard

    They couldn’t be in any worse hands than they are right now so i guess the mouse being in charge can’t loose.

  • Naoyu C. Mi

    Who.. the.. fuck.. aligns.. an.. article.. to.. the.. middle.. of.. the.. page? Douche.

  • Miles Cohn

    Noticed a typo; you said “Waid Wilson Captain America.” You meant to say “Sam Wilson.” Sam Wilson is his former sidekick The Falcon, Wade Wilson is Deadpool.